Septic tanks and politics??

This is a comment from a "concerned citizen" regarding septic tank sizing in Montana (DEQ-4 is a design circular put out by the state):

"DEQ4-2004 uses 2.25 times the design flow, which falls within the EPA recommendation of 2-3 times. If anything, it is low."

What the "concerned citizen" is saying is that if the design flow, which we all know is almost always overstated, is, for instance, 5000 gal/day, then the current corresponding septic tank volume of 11,250 gallons is not sufficient.  The "concerned citizen" suggests that much of the extra volume is required for sludge and scum storage.  This may be true but permit conditions generally require a pumping interval of 3-5 years so there will not be much accumulation anyway.  Design flows for homes in the Circular are so grossly overblown that a 10 lot subdivision on a cluster system could easily wind up with a  12,000 to 15,000 gallon septic tank in front of an advanced treatment unit.  This really makes no sense if one considers the actual expected flow of about 1800 GPD at full buildout and 100% occupancy.  The fact of the matter is, the "concerned citized" is also the distributor of one brand of large fiberglass tank commonly used as a septic tank.  This citizen benefits directly from a regulation that requires other citizens to install larger and larger septic tanks in their communities.  He has, in fact, suggested that a reasonable septic tank volume should be 3 to 4 times the daily design flow.  This number results in a whopper of a tank and probably sends him and his kids on a 3 week vacation to Hawaii!  I happen to think that is disgraceful to lobby for such extreme excesses under the guise of environmental concern when the real goal is much less noble: sell more big tanks.  Lets face it, a bigger septic tank ahead of an advanced treatment unit dosen't do a damn thing extra for the environment beyond what a reasonably sized septic tank will do.  It just costs the people buying it to pay more money.  Furthermore, Montana's DEQ is really part of the problem.  One DEQ employee recently, at a public meeting, scoffed at the notion that she would have any concern for how additional regulations impact the public's ability to pay for the increased infrastructure.  She was saying, in essence,  that she does not care if it costs more to build the system, it is simply not her concern.   I think this is the wrong approach and if the govt is going to impose additional regulations that will result in additional expense, there better be a compelling reason for the new regulation beyond the phony concern for the environment by a "concerned citizen".  But that's just my opinion.

5000 GPD Eliminite System Serves Church and School

We installed two 620's and a 12,000 gallon precast concrete tank that will serve a church and a school.  I discussed the use of the big precast concrete tank with the engineer and the owners decided to use it instead of the more common and more expensive fiberglass alternative.  These concrete tanks are available in sizes from about 500 gallons to 40,000 gallons and are considerably less expensive to purchase and install than fiberglass tanks largely due to the fact that the bedding and backfill requirements are so much  less stringent.  The combination of Eliminite 620's and precast concrete primary tank saved the owner tens of thousands of dollars over the our competition.So if cost is an issue(and it is ALWAYS an issue), you really need to check out our prices and compare them to the other manufacturers costs.  I am told that we ALWAYS come in less expensive.   We beat the competitions price for a highway rest area wastewater treatment system in Montana by somewhere around $40,000 last week. Obviously we got the job.

Thes concrete tanks arealso great for water storage, fire ponds etc.

If you need a reference, I will be glad to provide one for you.

None dare call it conspiracy

Taken from KTVM News

Caynon Elementary Will Stay Open for Now

Julie Rogers (03/10/2010)

The Canyon Elementary School in Hungry Horse has one year to hope for a miracle.
The school district faces a half a million dollar shortfall in next year's budget. School board members considered closing the Canyon School. But, they decided to keep it open for at least a year. The board will lay off a part-time principal, cut one and a half teaching positions, and three other jobs.

Even at that, the board thinks the school will likely close, but they'll use this year to prepare.


The new septic system represents 40% of the budget shortfall. 

It is a recognition of Eliminite's superiority.

You saw it here first!!!   Our C Series onsite wastewater treatment systems.  We carefully designed them and have been perfecting them for years.  Now I see that our big "competitor" has decided to try to copy the Eliminite system.  HA HA!  An act Desperation?  Engineers, installers, developers, homeowners have been choosing Eliminite over the "big guys" at an incredible rate.  They had to do something to stop the bleeding...so ....the easiest thing to do was to TRY to copy Eliminite.   Thank you guys!  You flatter us.  To think our little company, our detailed designs being scrutinized by such a BIG company not with the intention of building something better...something cheaper...something more reliable.  Couldn't they one-up us? Come up with a better idea than we did? Improve the thing?  At least when Japanese companies copied U.S. auto makers products they tried to improve the product!  If you study it you will see that the copy is actually a pretty bad copy.  A desperate copy.   A cry for help.  The fact is, people are getting sick and tired of their unreliable, high maintenance, overpriced rube goldberg gizmos.  Take a look at the original and see whay it is still the best value in onsite wastewater treatment. 

Here is a quote from General Contractor...I received this in my email yesterday for a 3000 gal/day project. 

"I think I can finally put the issue of which system to use to bed. I’m sure both systems would work but when I look at budget cost Eliminite is much cheaper. Therefore please proceed with the design based on the Eliminite system."

I will provide contact info if you ask.   Oh...I almost forgot...we will be rolling out 6 new models in about a week.  So you "big guys" better stock up on tracing paper!!! HA HA HA!

The names have been changed to protect the guilty

The players:


Designer: M.T. Head

Septic Tank Guy: Robin M. Daily

Business Name: Lee King Tanks

From: M.T Head

To: Tom

Subject: RE:

Tom:

Got a call from Robin M. Daily at Lee King Tanks and he said he had talked to John Q. Public Servant at

XXXX County and John Q Public Servant told him that Eliminite would be acceptable.

Robin M. Daily called me and wanted to make sure that the bid is apples to apples, so I think we should leave

the location and size for the piping, septic tank and treatment tank locations where they are on the plans.

Otherwise, there could be some complaints about unequal treatment by allowing a complete redesign.
Thanks,

M.T. Head
 
____________________
Now what does this mean you ask?  Well, the deal had already been struck between M.T. Head and Robin M. Daily to use Lee King Tanks and Equipment.  We were not given an opportunity to provide a quote for the job.  When I complained, Robin M. Daily called John Q. Public Servant and tried to get the govt. official to disallow us from bidding the project.  When John Q. Public Servant told Robin M. Daily that we were an acceptable alternative, Robin M. Daily contacted the designer, M.T. Head, and strong-armed him into forcing us to bid the system with the same components being supplied by Lee King Tanks and Equipment.  This would be like saying, Ford can bid the job but they have to bid it with GM engines.  The result was we were forced to provide an unrealistic price and the client got the shaft delivered to their front yard by their neighbors, M.T Head and Robin M. Daily.

A comment about the school

Normally comments are buried below the post but this one was so well thought out that I want to post it right on the front page where everyone can bask in its wisdom and perspicacity.

Anonymous said...

I think you need to pay attention to budget rules which the school district is tied to. Capital projects are a separate line item from operations (day-to-day expenses), the latter one they are REQUIRED by law to balance. So even if they had kept the money from the sale of Coram school in a bank account, they would not have been able to use it for expenses. The FACTS are the school has died from it's own lack of use and population shifts. Get over it or do something about it financially.

In spite of my earlier wisecrack, I will give the author of the comment some latitude to make uninformed statements. Once.   If the school "died from it's own lack of use" why was the septic system designed and built to accommodate a much larger population than is indicated by current use or growth projections.  Look at it this way, the current population at the school may generate 1500 gallons of wastewater per day, and this would be a big day.  Why, if the school was dying, was the septic system designed for nearly 5000 gallons of wastewater per day?  Why was a 15,000 gallon septic tank used for such a tiny flow?  Why were 3, 2500 gallon recirculation tanks used? Why was it necessary to install a 3000 gallon dose tank? Why was a septic system for a school showing a decline in population designed as if the student population was swelling faster than a tick on a lazy dog? 
 
As I said earlier, I have some interesting e-mail messages that will help explain why the system was so grossly overdesigned and why it came in for at least twice the budgeted amount.

Now why would I be posting a story like this?

Canyon Elementary appears to have earned a reprieve, at least for one year.

The School District 6 board took a first look at a new plan that would cut staff at the Hungry Horse school, but allow it to remain open next year.

"With this plan and other cuts I'm looking at we could maintain our current status," Superintendent Mike Nicosia told the board Monday.

Teaching and staff positions would be cut at the school.

 

I have some interesting information regarding the Canyon Elementary School that will help illuminate recent machinations that I am sure several individuals would rather keep in the dark.    This school is facing a serious budget shortfall contributed to, in part, by the expense of a new septic system that was recently installed. 

 

I will be posting several e-mail messages that will help explain things and describe what exactly happened.